Recording Guitar

[DoozerDan]

Isn't there a way to monitor with effects, but record dry?

Jeff

I can do that.  It's really handy.

Dan.

[DoozerDan]

I would tend to agree with you, Dave... But, I guess some folks can visualize what the final output is going to be. And, do it dry. I'd have never known the clip below was done completely dry using his Strat. And, later adding the effects.

This was a guitar part that a fellow from the old guard at cc did for me several years ago. His userid was Powerpop (Jeff from the UK). Sergio probably remembers him. Since Sergio did the rhythm on this for me. Don't worry, I've removed my vocal, and limited the clip to a portion of Jeff's lead... I'm still impressed when I hear it, knowing how he did it.
BW@

http://echoprojectstudio.org/bobby/ir_clip.wma

Is there the whole song around somewhere?  It sounds really good.

Cheers, Dan.

[robwood]

Isn't there a way to monitor with effects, but record dry?

Jeff

Jeff- i've been doing it this way quite a bit recently.  This is espescially good if you want to try different amp models, effects, etc after the fact.  As Mark points out, it's all about context.  But it always freaks me out a little to listen back to a completely dry guitar track-- sounds as thin as paper.  And you hear ALL your mistakes loud and clear

[Studioplayer]

This was a guitar part that a fellow from the old guard at cc did for me several years ago. His userid was Powerpop (Jeff from the UK). Sergio probably remembers him. Since Sergio did the rhythm on this for me. Don't worry, I've removed my vocal, and limited the clip to a portion of Jeff's lead... I'm still impressed when I hear it, knowing how he did it.
BW@
http://echoprojectstudio.org/bobby/ir_clip.wma

That would be cool to hear the dry comparison.

If I could just monitor the effects but record dry as Jeff mentioned that would be really interesting. It would allow me to try many different effects that way. How do you guys do it? Dan?

[Bobby Watson]

Is there the whole song around somewhere?  It sounds really good.

Cheers, Dan.

I think maybe, you listened to the best part of it, Dan... I wrote the song about 30 years ago. Then, when I ran across CC several years ago, some of the folks there were kind enough to help me turn it into something, real. I had always hoped to recruit a singer to replace my attempt. But, never have.  And, some of the "old" samples, could use a face lift as well.

At, any rate, not meaning to capture the thread, here is the complete original
.... I wish Powerpop was still around. But, he moved on to family and career. And, hasn't been heard from in a long time...
Regards,
BW@

http://echoprojectstudio.org/bobby/remember.wma

[sergio]

The problem with that and probably with most guitarists is that we need those effects to get the right feel for the song. It's really hard to play with a certain feel when it's totally dry. It would be nice to add effects later but can't always be done.   

I would tend to agree with you, Dave... But, I guess some folks can visualize what the final output is going to be. And, do it dry. I'd have never known the clip below was done completely dry using his Strat. And, later adding the effects.

This was a guitar part that a fellow from the old guard at cc did for me several years ago. His userid was Powerpop (Jeff from the UK). Sergio probably remembers him. Since Sergio did the rhythm on this for me. Don't worry, I've removed my vocal, and limited the clip to a portion of Jeff's lead... I'm still impressed when I hear it, knowing how he did it.
BW@

http://echoprojectstudio.org/bobby/ir_clip.wma

Bobby,

I do remember PowerPop - and i like that guitar sound - if i remember correctly he used a FREE plug - i can't remember the name of the plug but i believe it was a Marshall model.  If you remember Bobby, Powerpop used to play bass lines for his tunes on his six string and used an octave plug to make his guitar sound like a bass 

Regarding this thread - its good to see that there are so many guitarists out there in search of the best tone. For the last few years I have been reasonably happy with the POD and PODXT - I do misss playing a real amp - I have a Mesa Boogie and Tech 21 sitting in my garage.  I don't know if you can ever really emulate true feedback sustain without the air form the speaker vibrating the guitar strings.  I just PMed Luis to let him know that i have added guitar rig2 to my setup (i am also hoping that he has not abandoned the guitar rig for POD - which he has inquired about in the past).  Here is the degree of my current sickness --    -- I have now split my guitar signal into two feeds - one goes straight into the Firebox preamp channel 1 to record a dry track while the other feed goes thru my PODXT out of the stereo outputs into channels 3 and 4 of the Firebox.  Now I have a tone i like to start out with plus the ability to futz with the dry track after the fact using the Guitar Rig plug.  To answer Jeff's question about hearing effects whilke you play - in Sonar you just hit the input monitoring button and as long as you have decent low latency you hear the effected track as you record dry.

Mybe in this or another thread we could include samples of achieved tones.  Personally, I am still in quest of some of Larry Carlton's tones from his 335 way back when he played with the Crusaders  more later...

sergio


sergio

[Bobby Watson]

Powerpop used to play bass lines for his tunes on his six string and used an octave plug to make his guitar sound like a bass

Now that you mention it, I do remember that, Sergio... Like I said, too bad Jeff isn't around anymore. He also did some "unique" music of his own.
BW@

[Tacman7]

I've thought about trying the dry recording but send the dry signal out to the external effects box.

I think there is a direct out on the box I have so I should be able to play with effects and record dry then be able to use different effects later.

I just didn't think it would work the same with a recorded guitar as plugging the guitar straight in.

Have to give it a try when I get the time.

[NickT]

I have been asking for dry/straight guitar tracks on a couple of projects lately. The reason is that when everything is coming together, many times the guitar tone just won't sit in the mix.

The bottom line always comes back to the gain. You just can't get that ballsy tone for rock when the guitar signal sounds like ten pounds of gain stuffed into a 5 pound bag.

I still remember doing a demo for a Starsearch audition. The song was pretty heavy and I was trying to get a Priest/Scorpions sound. I was in the studio saying it doesn't sound "mean" enough. I kept messing with the pre-amp gain and my tubescreamer pedal. After about 15 minutes, the engineer came into the recording room and very calmly backed the gain, bass and treble and turned the amp balls out. We then recorded the track 4 times switching guitars. It was hard to play, but the track was killer. best tone I ever got. We multed the guitar tracks and split them wide stereo. I then recorded the track with a ton of gain and we brought that up just under the others so you could just begin to hear it.

I also like to leave any FX until the last part of the mix. Chorus is nice, but can take over a mix.

Nick

[Gerk]

Yep Nick  ... exactly.

it's funny, but that "more balls" sound that most people associate with "more gain" is actually so little gain it's uncomfortable to play.  The Alice in Chains type stuff comes to mind, Cantrell's guitar sounds HUGE and heavy as hell .. and has barely any gain on it

Mark

[Tacman7]

If I could just monitor the effects but record dry as Jeff mentioned that would be really interesting. It would allow me to try many different effects that way. How do you guys do it? Dan?

I thought I had a dry out on the black box but apparently it doesn't.

I'm going to try plugging the guitar into the mixer then use the channel direct out to go to the black box then the mixer out is going into my DAW already so that would record the straight guitar without monitor and I would monitor the sounds of the black box.

Should work...

[luisma1972]

For the last few years I have been reasonably happy with the POD and PODXT - I do misss playing a real amp - I have a Mesa Boogie and Tech 21 sitting in my garage.  I don't know if you can ever really emulate true feedback sustain without the air form the speaker vibrating the guitar strings.

Sergio, what I do when tracking is to split the signal and feed my amp and the recording interface at the same time. That way I can get a good feeling when tracking without beeing worried about the final "tone" (at least not at that moment). After that I can tweek the plug in at will.

[sergio]

Thanks Luis -- I think what I am doing with a split signal is the along the same lines..

I have now split my guitar signal into two feeds - one goes straight into the Firebox preamp channel 1 to record a dry track while the other feed goes thru my PODXT out of the stereo outputs into channels 3 and 4 of the Firebox.  Now I have a tone i like to start out with plus the ability to futz with the dry track after the fact using the Guitar Rig plug

[DoozerDan]

Is there the whole song around somewhere?  It sounds really good.

Cheers, Dan.

I think maybe, you listened to the best part of it, Dan... I wrote the song about 30 years ago. Then, when I ran across CC several years ago, some of the folks there were kind enough to help me turn it into something, real. I had always hoped to recruit a singer to replace my attempt. But, never have.  And, some of the "old" samples, could use a face lift as well.

At, any rate, not meaning to capture the thread, here is the complete original
.... I wish Powerpop was still around. But, he moved on to family and career. And, hasn't been heard from in a long time...
Regards,
BW@

http://echoprojectstudio.org/bobby/remember.wma

Awesome Downloading it now.

[DoozerDan]

If I could just monitor the effects but record dry as Jeff mentioned that would be really interesting. It would allow me to try many different effects that way. How do you guys do it? Dan?

Hey Dave, sorry I've not replied to this earlier, for some reason I didn't get E-mail saying that this has been replied to, so expecting one that didn't come I thought no one had said anything.

What I do is I add effects in my music software.  That's it, I plug my geetar up, play dry, and add sounds in GarageBand which can be added or removed anytime.  I use it a bit.  But I guess you just have to have the software to be able to do it.

Cheers, Dan.