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Recording Guitar

Tacman7 · 53 · 36058
 

Offline DoozerDan

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Hey Geoff, I use a toneport UX1, I just got it, what sort of Amp models etc. do you like? What ones sound good in your opinion?  When I get the time I'm going to have to put some of this really useful tips in to action :)

Doozer,

Well, the Toneport ships with many good amp model IMO. I have the added-on Metal pack, so forgive me if I can't remember all the ones' that were shipped with it.
I guess it really depends on what music you are into and what tone you like. I play mostly hard rock/metal, so I have a pretty heavily distorted guitar sound. I like the Brit J-800, which is the Marshall JCM800 (I'm a Marshall guy...  ;D ), the Solo 100 Soldano emulation, and the Line 6 Spinal Puppet. For clean sounds, that JC-120 based on Roland Jazz Chorus is super clean, if that's what you are looking for. I see they have added an emulation based on the Orange A30 amp - don't know what that sounds like. I use the Metal boutique amps for most of my recording now but the ones above will yield good results out of the box. I don't use any efx when recording, so you're on your own there. I would suggest using the Noise Gate tho...

You definitely want to try different cabs/mics/mic placements with each of the amps. Believe it or not, I've had the Toneport for almost a year now and I'm still testing different combinations.

Have fun with it too - it's great trying new and interesting sounds!!!  :)

Cool, thanks for the tips.  I'm not really a Marshall guy, I have a one, it's only a 30watt... but it'll be the last I get, I don't really like the distorion, IMO it's to much fuzz and not enough distinction between the notes.  But I'll try your sugestions, who knows, I might like them  :)  Sadly I don't have that much time to play my guitar, so I don't really like spending a lot of time trying to find a good sound... It's sad but true, I guess I'll have to someday. But it's not this day...

Cheers, Dan.


Offline Gerk

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I'll chime in here as well and agree with some comments that have been posted.

less is more!!  In all aspects ... less gain, less (preferably NO) effects, less EQ.

Another thing to consider is where in the audio spectrum your track will sit.  Most times this means you need a LOT of midrange.  Most guitarists just learning this stuff tend to pump up bass and treble on their tracks as it makes it sound more "full".  In reality this is the exact opposite of what you need once you sit the guitar into a mix of other intruments.

As a soundman over the years a lot of guitar players have asked me to tweak up their tone, or to help them do so.  The first thing I typically do is turn down the bass and treble and turn up the mids.  At first it might sound a bit odd to have a really midrangy sound, but also consider that it's pretty simple to add bass and treble after the fact, but adding midrange (cleanly) is another thing alltogether.  You want maximum calrity and articulation of the sound at the source, whether it be from an amp, a pedal, an amp sim, or a plugin.

A good rule of thumb to learn what you need 9and don't) for this type of stuff, is don't EQ a guitar sound by itself, always fiddle with it whie playing with a mix with a lot of other sounds going on.  It might help you to educate your ear as to what you want/need to get the end result.  Then go back and listen to the guitar track by itself.  It ay not sound killer by itself, in fact some of the best guitar tracks I've had just sit in the mix sounded kinda of aweful by themselves, but when added to all the other stuff the magic happened.

Lastly, the tone you get from a guitar, playing by itself is mostly useless to tweak up .. unless it's a part that is meant to be by itself with no accompaniment.  it's all about context.

Food for thought :)

Mark


Offline Studioplayer

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This is a great thread. Even after all these years of recording I really didn't know the importance of mids. I am a great culprut of having more bass & treble and practically nothing for mids. Mid tones always seemed scooped out or hollow sounding to me. I will have to play around more with the mids and see how it works.  8)


Offline DoozerDan

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This is a great thread, I'm finaly finding out stuff that I keep asking about and not getting answers to  :-X

My aamp only has treble and bass knobs... Dosn't have a mid.  So the guys who designed it didn't do a good job there....

Cheers, Dan.


Offline Gerk

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If you want more mid on that amp ... try turning down the bass and treble and turning up the volume :)

Mark


Offline r4m

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Turn the gain down!! >:(
I love gain!
But it's true. :(
It's one of my BIG faults.
Great stuff here guys! Keep the thoughts flowing.


Offline DoozerDan

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If you want more mid on that amp ... try turning down the bass and treble and turning up the volume :)

Mark

Ahh, awesome  :) I'll have to try that.  Thanks.

Dan.


Offline luisma1972

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Great thread indeed. I agree with Mark almost a 100 percent, I can't agree on the gain, thou. There's no such thing as too much gain  :D.....

I guess most of us guitar players have the same disease!!!!





P.S. Now seriously, I do agree with Mark a 100 percent.
Luis Manuel Aguilar


Offline Gerk

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I'll chime in with one more tip that often get's overlooked, specifically when you are micing up a guitar cabinet.  I have always heard the complaint "That's not what my guitar sounded like when I played it!" ... but guess what, it probably did sound just like that, you just weren't listening at the right spot! :D

If you're close micing (which works pretty well most times for my usage) don't tweak up your sound to make it sound great when standing 6 feet away . . . think more in context of where the mic is.  Things sound a LOT different right on the speaker cone vs. six feet away in a room.  Place the mic on the speaker and try to get to another room to listen to the actual sound coming through the microphone.  If you can't do that then record a bit of playing and then listen to it played back.  EQ'ing and tweaking your sound for a room/your ears when listening to a cabinet live typically means very little in regards to what it will sound like close miced.

This also holds true for effects.  That "little bit" of reverb to make things sound better to your ear (standing 6 feet away from the cabinet) generally sounds like a washed out wall of reverb 2 inches from the speaker cone :)  The same holds true for almost any effect you add at recording time.  In this day and age there's not a really good reason to add (most) effects at recording time.. once they are there you can't take them away, but it's very very easy to add the relevant effects into your mix later.  An amp spring reverb or component reverb doesn't hold a feather to a nice convolution reverb plugin, and when you start mixing and matching them you _really_ notice the difference!

Mark

« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 11:13:57 PM by Gerk »


Offline DoozerDan

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I'll chime in with one more tip that often get's overlooked, specifically when you are micing up a guitar cabinet.  I have always heard the complaint "That's not what my guitar sounded like when I played it!" ... but guess what, it probably did sound just like that, you just weren't listening at the right spot! :D

If you're close micing (which works pretty well most times for my usage) don't tweak up your sound to make it sound great when standing 6 feet away . . . think more in context of where the mic is.  Things sound a LOT different right on the speaker cone vs. six feet away in a room.  Place the mic on the speaker and try to get to another room to listen to the actual sound coming through the microphone.  If you can't do that then record a bit of playing and then listen to it played back.  EQ'ing and tweaking your sound for a room/your ears when listening to a cabinet live typically means very little in regards to what it will sound like close miced.

This also holds true for effects.  That "little bit" of reverb to make things sound better to your ear (standing 6 feet away from the cabinet) generally sounds like a washed out wall of reverb 2 inches from the speaker cone :)  The same holds true for almost any effect you add at recording time.  In this day and age there's not a really good reason to add (most) effects at recording time.. once they are there you can't take them away, but it's very very easy to add the relevant effects into your mix later.  An amp spring reverb or component reverb doesn't hold a feather to a nice convolution reverb plugin, and when you start mixing and matching them you _really_ notice the difference!

Mark

Very good point, I'd worked it out all ready but still good to hear it again.

Dan.


Offline Tacman7

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About Gain:

I don't know if you guys noticed or not but my amp goes up to 11.



Offline Studioplayer

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I have always heard the complaint "That's not what my guitar sounded like when I played it!" ... but guess what, it probably did sound just like that, you just weren't listening at the right spot! :D

And I thought my mic was broken !!  :o

Seriously, when I started to mic my cab I was having the problem of getting it to sound as I heard it in the room. It was very frustrating because I was getting a totally different tone than what I was hearing. I actually started to wonder if my mic wasn't working well.  ::) I realize now, and you just confirmed it, that when close micing your dealing with a diffferent sound point. You can't go by what you hear six feet away. It takes a bit of tweaking to get that good sound. I'm still playing around and would like to try to add a room mic as well. See if that gets me better results.

Quote
In this day and age there's not a really good reason to add (most) effects at recording time.. 

The problem with that and probably with most guitarists is that we need those effects to get the right feel for the song. It's really hard to play with a certain feel when it's totally dry. It would be nice to add effects later but can't always be done.  ???

Dave


Offline Bobby Watson

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Quote
The problem with that and probably with most guitarists is that we need those effects to get the right feel for the song. It's really hard to play with a certain feel when it's totally dry. It would be nice to add effects later but can't always be done.   

I would tend to agree with you, Dave... But, I guess some folks can visualize what the final output is going to be. And, do it dry. I'd have never known the clip below was done completely dry using his Strat. And, later adding the effects.

This was a guitar part that a fellow from the old guard at cc did for me several years ago. His userid was Powerpop (Jeff from the UK). Sergio probably remembers him. Since Sergio did the rhythm on this for me. Don't worry, I've removed my vocal, and limited the clip to a portion of Jeff's lead... I'm still impressed when I hear it, knowing how he did it.
BW@

http://echoprojectstudio.org/bobby/ir_clip.wma



Offline Bobby Watson

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Isn't there a way to monitor with effects, but record dry?

Jeff

Yes you can,with the right setup, Jeff... I do that a lot with singers who can't seem to track without hearing some effect in their headphones. Some folks don't like the way they sound dry. So, have trouble concentrating on the song. But, that can cause some problems as well with intonation... But, that's my opinion.
BW@


 

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