Mixing Info Websites

[stoman]

For tracking it could make a big difference having all the nice mics & preamps to record with , but for mixing the main benefit would be the quality of the acoustics more than the plugins or monitors.

CD

+1

Most mixes done by home-recorders here or elsewhere (and that includes mine) suffer from room acoustics that are not optimal.

Regards,
  Steffen

[stoman]

I first used L-C-R on one of Doc's songs "Oh No"  , and a number of other songs after -  quite interesting to try and I think it has fairly solid technical reasons why people use it. I used Haas delays to pan opposite  the hard panned instruments.

Be interesting to know if you find the same unpleasantness on headphones as  the other.

I'll give it a listen on head phones later and get back to you. But I must say that I have never heard a LCR-panned mix that I liked. It sounds too unnatural to my ears when there are only three distinct sound sources.

I usually listen with in-ear buds that lock out most of the environmental noise, so you really just hear the song.

One song I recently listened to that used LCR panning was "Jailbird" by "Primal Scream". It says "original mix" on that CD, so there may be several different mixes available. That extreme panning really stresses my ears (or my brain?) too much - even when I listen on normal speakers.

Which is a pity as the song itself is nice. But I just cannot listen to it.

Regards,
  Steffen

[stoman]

I'll give it a listen on head phones later and get back to you. But I must say that I have never heard a LCR-panned mix that I liked. It sounds too unnatural to my ears when there are only three distinct sound sources.

Yep, same holds for that song. I just listened, and I don't like it at all that way. The production is great otherwise, but those holes confuse my old brain too much. Probably a simple matter of taste and custom. I guess I'll never like the modern way of mixing anyway (dry, agressive, over-compressed). I'm a dinosaur.

Regards,
  Steffen

[CosmicDolphin]

Here's a totally moronic question from a total moron.

What's the difference between mixing and mastering?

Mastering engineers were originally there to prevent problems when music got pressed to vinyl. If you had any bass notes that were too sub-sonic it could cause the needle to literally jump out of the groove.  This becomes more likely as you get nearer the centre of the record because the grooves are closer together and the dividing walls thinner.

Today they ensure album makes sense tonally and in terms of level and also running order. 

From what Im reading "Real" mastering is pretty technical however they probably have software programs to do most of the tech side of it...Im guessing they do.

Programs like sequia and the like.

Vincent - the software that Jon Astley ( http://www.closetotheedge.biz/about.htm ) used when we attended the mastering session for the Cool Beyond Zero album was Sadie , but that really wasn't the most technical bit. It was more or less used as a tape recorder and no more involved than any DAW I've ever used. He also used some of the same Waves & Sonnox plugins I have myself.

Most of the 'magic' came from the analogue stuff he routed the songs through and his experienced ears just honing in on problems right away.

For those that never saw the original thread there's a full account of what happened on that mastering day here which is probably a typical days work for a Mastering Engineer:

http://www.musicianscollaboration.com/forum/index.php?topic=7466.0


I think the divide between mixing and mastering in hobbiest music has become somewhat blurred, as alot of folks will compress/limit/eq a song afterwards but I would always keep a version without any of that processing on too because we had trouble with some of the CBZ songs where Marc the bass player had mixed them with these things in place and we couldn't undo them, so it ended up being somewhat compromised.

CD

[CosmicDolphin]

One song I recently listened to that used LCR panning was "Jailbird" by "Primal Scream". It says "original mix" on that CD, so there may be several different mixes available. That extreme panning really stresses my ears (or my brain?) too much - even when I listen on normal speakers.

Which is a pity as the song itself is nice. But I just cannot listen to it.

Great song, I really like it. I think the general production of that era is more in line with my own taste than anything from the past few years. Not too dry like you said.

I just had a listen on my headphones ( Spotify is great for this if you never used it ) , it is more extreme on this song for sure. I don't find it uncomfortable though.  Maybe it's all those Beatles records I listened to as a kid with half the song panned one way and half the other 

It doesn't sound like they made any attempt to 'fill' the spaces between the L-C-R positions , which is what I tried to do with the delays and reverbs on Doc's track.

You could always make it mono 

CD

[Vincent]

Well...everyone has their own opinion I guess.

For me

Better gear (guitars,amps,preamps,mics ect recorded in studio) and better plugins or outboard gear to mix with = better mixes.

Its obvious for me.

-------------------

From what im reading over at gearsluts...the Antress plugs are pretty much junk...That was my feeling on them as well...they look good but sound bad.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/176940-antress-free-modern-plugins.html

[CosmicDolphin]

Better gear (guitars,amps,preamps,mics ect recorded in studio) and better plugins or outboard gear to mix with = better mixes.

Its obvious for me.

I'm reminded about something that bugs my wife...she's spent the last couple of years learning more about photography..........

It usually goes something like this:-

" Wow....that's a really nice photo "

" Why thankyou "

" What camera did you use to make it come out so good "

 

CD

[CosmicDolphin]

From what im reading over at gearsluts...the Antress plugs are pretty much junk...That was my feeling on them as well...they look good but sound bad.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/176940-antress-free-modern-plugins.html

Did you read the whole thread ? ....just as many people liking them as not...I've never tried them but read good things in SOS.

Did you watch any of these vids ?  http://www.audiofreebie.com/2010/01/antress-vs-uad/

The GREAT thing about the Liquidmix is it just has one uniform interface, so you don't get seduced because the GUI 'looks' like a classic bit of gear.  You just have to use your ears to decide if compressor X really sounds better than compressor Y on your track.

CD

[NickT]

I'm not sure how much of this discussion I agree with. I have mixed alot of tunes. Some really well, most only better than average. I have my work flow.

I always start with a fader mix to get an idea of what I have to work with.
I tend to start with drums. EQ and comp so they are solid.
Then bass, guitars, keys and then vocals to sit on top. I want to hear every word sung.  Of course I build my fx as I work on each group. I treat the fx as part of the instument.

Panning, depth (delay) and eq help with the placement.

I also like a little compression on the master buss. Acts as glue and also won't deliver as many surprises in the mastering phase.

Good discussion.

Nick

[CosmicDolphin]

I have my work flow.

Nick

I plan alot more strict with my workflow when I get back to mixing , I have a tendency to hear something that I simply have to attack before everything else which probably isn't the best way 

CC

[NickT]

I will do that too. Nothing wrong with that. But I really like to get a working mix of the rhythm section before I start noodling about.
 

I have my work flow.

Nick

I plan alot more strict with my workflow when I get back to mixing , I have a tendency to hear something that I simply have to attack before everything else which probably isn't the best way 

CC

[Vincent]

Better gear (guitars,amps,preamps,mics ect recorded in studio) and better plugins or outboard gear to mix with = better mixes.

Its obvious for me.

I'm reminded about something that bugs my wife...she's spent the last couple of years learning more about photography..........

It usually goes something like this:-

" Wow....that's a really nice photo "

" Why thankyou "

" What camera did you use to make it come out so good "

 

CD

I hear what your saying...even with not so great gear you can still do a decent job...which is true....I guess my point is imagine how much better it could be using the best of the best.

My brother is good at taking photos as well...he has a natural gift for it...a steady hand...When I take pictures they always look blurry like im suffering from parkinsons or something.

[Vincent]

As for mixing...if possible (If I have all the stems)

I will mix bass,drums and vocals first...then add guitar keys and filler.

I think its good to bring vocals into the mix as soon as possible since its the star of the show in most cases.

[CosmicDolphin]

I hear what your saying...even with not so great gear you can still do a decent job

 

No No No, you missed my point   

 A great photographer will take great photos with any camera. A basic photographer ( like me & you ) will still produce basic photos with a great camera. But with more pixels.

It's not about the camera ( or studio)   It's how you use it. Better gear does not = better results. My wife's most succesful photo which has sold on stock photo sites and won 2 prizes in photography contests was taken on a camera that cost a fifth of the one she has now.

CD
CD

[docmidnite]

Ok, here´s my list of mixing info websites.
I signed in for their email service and really appreciate and learn a lot of it!!!

http://www.homestudiocorner.com/  >>>>> sends emails on a daily basis for free with funny hints, tips and tricks
http://therecordingrevolution.com/    >>>>> check out his video series 5 minutes to a better mix
http://www.pensadosplace.tv/category/into-the-lair/