Any mixing tips for improving cheap sounding sax?

[stoman]

A song of mine has a real saxophone that sounds terrible (it has no character). Does anybody have a recipe for saving such tracks, or  would the only solution be a retake?

Regards,
  Steffen

[CosmicDolphin]

A song of mine has a real saxophone that sounds terrible (it has no character). Does anybody have a recipe for saving such tracks, or  would the only solution be a retake?

Regards,
  Steffen

Lots of things you could try , depending on what's wrong with it.  Of course it's always better to get the sound right at source....but if it's not possible.....here are a few things you could try..

Generate more harmonics...lots of ways / plugins to do that..subtle distortion etc

Make another copy and use some paralell compression

Try the Michael Brauer Multiple compression technique....i.e. you send it to 5 or 6 different compressors Auxes and then return them back to the stereo buss, each one giveing a different character to the sound.

sample replacement....turn the audio into midi notes and run it through a VSTi , maybe combine it back with the original


Just a few ideas , but quicker to re-record !

CD

[NickT]

  I just re-read that article last night! 

Make another copy and use some paralell compression

Try the Michael Brauer Multiple compression technique....i.e. you send it to 5 or 6 different compressors Auxes and then return them back to the stereo buss, each one giveing a different character to the sound.

[stoman]

Thanks, guys! I'll try the multi compression technique to make the cheap sax sound stronger/fatter. The next problem will then be the delay settings for both sax fills and solo. And the sax needs some
modulation as it sounds completely flat. Any tips on that too?

I don't think I can get hold of the sax player again, so redoing it won't be an option.

Regards,
  Steffen

[CosmicDolphin]

Why not post it up and we can all play with it ?

[CosmicDolphin]

I just re-read that article last night! 

Make another copy and use some paralell compression

Try the Michael Brauer Multiple compression technique....i.e. you send it to 5 or 6 different compressors Auxes and then return them back to the stereo buss, each one giveing a different character to the sound.

Did you try it yet though ?

[stoman]

Here we go - it is the sax track from "Trust In The Moon".

The sax was detuned. I tuned it with Cubase 5.

Regards,
  Steffen

[CosmicDolphin]

Here we go - it is the sax track from "Trust In The Moon".

The sax was detuned. I tuned it with Cubase 5.

Regards,
  Steffen

Nothing wrong with to my ears , I guess it depends on the rest of the mix too.  What didn't you like about it ?

CD

[stoman]

Many things.

1. It was completely out of tune. Fixed that myself.
2. It sounds too flat. Can possibly be fixed with a chorus effect.
3. It sounds too weak. Probably needs very accurate compressor settings.

I'd like to have a sounds like in G. Rafferty's "Baker Street", but I don't know how to achieve that.

Regards,
  Steffen

[CosmicDolphin]

Many things.

1. It was completely out of tune. Fixed that myself.
2. It sounds too flat. Can possibly be fixed with a chorus effect.
3. It sounds too weak. Probably needs very accurate compressor settings.

I'd like to have a sounds like in G. Rafferty's "Baker Street", but I don't know how to achieve that.

Regards,
  Steffen

The actual part itself will never sound like Baker St because it doesn't have the same kind of soaring melody....it's not a solo so much , more of a fill.  It's voiced quite differntly tooo.

This is some tube emulation, compression , and ambience.  See if that helps...you can always set up your own similar chain if it's starting to sound more like what you want.

I didn't eq it as it's very contextual.

CD

[CosmicDolphin]

This is version 2

This one also has a transient enhancer which emphasizes the note attack , and a big reverb space.

CD

[stoman]

Thanks, CD, I'll try that it the mix.

It is actually more or less what I had tried before though. I think my main problem is how to integrate the sax in the mix. I had originally used a synth sax for those parts, and that sounded worlds better. But, of course, you could hear that it wasn't real. 

I have a couple of delay/chorus plugins that I like, and usually they are enough to integrate a sound nicely into a mix. But with this sax nothing works.

I'll probably start the whole mix from scratch. Tomorrow.

Regards,
  Steffen

[stoman]

Thanks again. Which transient modeller/enhancer do you use btw?

The sax sep needs some cleanup - there is an annoying valve sound on it (is that the correct term?). I fixed that in my project, but I did not save the fixed sep.

Regards,
  Steffen

[CosmicDolphin]

Version 3

Added Waves Doubler - Basic Doubler preset edited to suit

I used the Sonnox Transmod on it but there's plenty would do the trick.

I personally like to hear the sound of the valves , I also like to hear fret noise an an acoustic guitar, it's part of the sound for me.

CD

[stoman]

Even better. I must sleep now. Tomorrow will be my last day off - I'll start a new mix then and see how your processed file fits. Can you post a flac or ape?

Thanks and good night,
  Steffen