Final Mix EQ - Compensating for project Studio design flaws

[NickT]

I know a few of us use har-bal to check our final mix eq. I have backed off making broad changes because it is way to easy to kill the mix. But it is a great tool so see how your system in lying to you.

This is not a knock on anyones mix technique. But I have noticed a few mixes from the prominent mix guys that seem to differ from what I hear.

This is what I am finding.

CD - Mixes are even and well done. But "I" find them a little high endy or bright.
Davidinoz - Again nice mixes but I hear a low-mid bump.
Cary - Great mixes. Mid highs seem just a little hot.
Curtis - smooth mixes. High end a little hyped.
NickT - Freakin awesome...you rock!    Just kidding. I have been hearing my low end is hot.
Sharpola - very clean. High end is hot.

This is not all the mixers on the site. Allot of you do great jobs! Just the ones I have heard for a couple of years now.

So we all wonder how our mixes translate. I think we are all close enough that they sound pretty good on most systems.

What references do you all use either in har-bal or even just to tune your ears for a session?

Do you have custom references for Har-Bal? I do.

Would love to hear from anyone on this subject.

Thanks,

Nick

[jwoo10]

Without having to Google or Wikkipedia it.. Whats Har-Bal?

signed,
peanut gallery

[NickT]

From The Site:

Har-Bal has caused a paradigm shift in the recording industry and is an award winning outstanding technical achievement.

This superior method of EQ'ing and harmonic balancing gives Har-Bal it's distinction as the premiere spectrum analyzer for the most important step in the CD mastering process. It truly separates an amateur recording from a professional recording and removes the need to test your CD's on different systems and environments.

In addition, unlike a typical digital equalizer, Har-Bal leaves the initial volume level unchanged even after performing spectral correction thanks to its "loudness compensation" technology.

Har-Bal allows you to easily tidy up the sound quality of mastered or un-mastered recordings while preserving the original intent of the producer and/or recording engineer.

http://www.har-bal.com/index.php

Nick

[CosmicDolphin]

Hey Nick....

Good feedback  ! ...here's my view on what I've heard...

Davidnoz......very smooth...rich sounding kinda mixes...less high end than the Cd's I listen to

NickT...........Loud mixes...a little more compressed than my taste...lots of bottom end , sometimes a bit closed in at the treble

Curtis........... Decent mixes , but quite lacking in the higher frequencies which dulled them.

Cary.............Can't say I've really listened to any mixes knowing Cary did them...you'll have to point me some.

Sharpola........Not really heard many but the one or two I heard sounded real good.


I have a few songs from Cd's that I made a reference file for Har-Bal from , but it is just a reference...mainly I use it to make sure there's no major mistakes caused by room problems.  I'm in a single car size garage and have to have things set up across the short width of it which is bad , I have zero acoustic treatment and my amp is really a PA Amp !

My mixes are coming pretty close when I check them in Har-bal these days, I think the amount of practise I'm gettin here is a real help and I'm certainly better at it than I was when I joined almost a year ago now.

I always try to listen to a commercial song in the style I'm mixing , though I don't have any Country stuff so more the rock and pop kinda material.

Most of my Cd's are modern , all my older stuff is on vinyl so I don't have those as a reference anymore...I always try to match the overall eq within the mix and sometimes load a wave file into the Sonar project of my reference song.

Nick said he finds them a little bright , I guess I'm just matching the brightness I hear in whatever else I listen to..which is all the modern mixes I like...they seem to get alot of brightness without harshness which is the hard thing..I guess alot of that come from the kinda mic's and pre-amps they can use to record with.  The difference between my best and worst eq plugs is quite large, you can add the same amount of HF boost on both and the basic plugin can sound harsh but the better ones won't.  I guess it's just the same with the hardware the big guys can use.  They can make it bright without being harsh.

One day I'll move house and get a proper room with proper acoustic treatment ...then you better watch out 

CD

[NickT]

So I am getting two points here.

1.) I mix loud.  OK no secret there. One of my favorite newer releases was American Idiot - Green Day - Chris Lord-Alge. I love anything CLA mixes.

2.) My system must be overly bright and soft on the low end. I have thought this for some time now anyway. The Events are bright. And the Alesis 10" sub doesn't kick as hard as the Yorkville 12" I had to get rid of. (I loved that sub. Wonderful tight lowend!)

But I can't help feeling that it's a combination of different environments.

Mark - When I fired up your latest mix of Not Like The Others. The intro just about took my head off with the high end. But I am sure it was OK on your end. Note: Not knocking your mix, just my initial impression of the EQ.

Now I know I suffer high end loss and have tinnitus, so you would think I would compensate. But those freqs (3k-5k hurt when they are loud)

I am going to test my setup again. If I had the money, I would love to try the new IK ARC System.

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/arc/

Thanks,

Nick

[Cary]

I'm working with stone knives and bear skins.  I can't expect much more from my mixes.

[Cary]

Maybe each one of us could submit what we believe to be our best mix.  Then we could all listen and chat about them.

[CosmicDolphin]

So I am getting two points here.

1.) I mix loud.  OK no secret there. One of my favorite newer releases was American Idiot - Green Day - Chris Lord-Alge. I love anything CLA mixes.

They are ...do you put the loudness in the mix busses or afterwards on the master ? .....Do you have any of the CLA presets for Waves SSL ?  I use some of them as starting point.

2.) My system must be overly bright and soft on the low end. I have thought this for some time now anyway. The Events are bright. !)

I don't know  - you'll have to pay for a field trip for us !  Then we can compare...I have some little Kef speakers too. The kids pushed in the tweeters once...I pulled 'em back out and proper CD's still always sound fine...but I use 'em as grotboxes..It's hard to get a mix to sound nice on them, but mixes that sound nice on the other two speakers can sound like crap on these.  It's the same principle as the old Yamaha NS10's, a mix that's not right will sound far worse on them and a good mix will be OK.  Maybe pick a CD that's known to be on the bright side and listen....that last Foo Fighters CD was quite bright sounding to me...at least the MP3's were.

Mark - When I fired up your latest mix of Not Like The Others. The intro just about took my head off with the high end. But I am sure it was OK on your end. Note: Not knocking your mix, just my initial impression of the EQ.

I tried it in the car and on the grotty Kefs and on my son's little micro system and it sounded good on all three.....the first version was a bit too much in those high mids for sure, but the tweaked one sounded better all around when I tried it. Plus the headphones I use really take your ears off if there's too much high mids and it sounded okay on those too...different style to yours for sure though.

I am going to test my setup again. If I had the money, I would love to try the new IK ARC System.

Yeah me too...did you read the review in Sound on Sound ?  They generally knock those sort of things but they seemed impressed.

Shame it's so expensive...they did say the outlay would buy an awful lot of acoustic treatment. !

We should buy one between us all ...then once we've sorted our studio ship it on to the next guy....how many of us could chip in ?

CD

[CosmicDolphin]

Maybe each one of us could submit what we believe to be our best mix.  Then we could all listen and chat about them.

Maybe we could pick what we thought were each others best and worst mixes and why ?

[NickT]

Hey Cary - Nice to hear from you! 

Yes! We should post what our we think is our best mix. Unfortunately, I still feel some of my best mixes were on my old system.

I'm working with stone knives and bear skins.  I can't expect much more from my mixes.

LOL! your mixes always sound good. We are all mixing with less than perfect tools!

I tried it in the car and on the grotty Kefs and on my son's little micro system and it sounded good on all three.....the first version was a bit too much in those high mids for sure, but the tweaked one sounded better all around when I tried it. Plus the headphones I use really take your ears off if there's too much high mids and it sounded okay on those too...different style to yours for sure though.

I think the freqs that people with really good hearing enjoy, hurt me. If I would have known how much I would have to pay for playing in rock bands, I would have re thought the whole experience.

Maybe we could pick what we thought were each others best and worst mixes and why ?

This sounds interesting also. As long as the criticism is constructive!

Nick

[CosmicDolphin]

I'm serious about seeing if a bunch of us wanna put towards the IK Arc system...you only really need it once unless you move studio/house.

CD

[NickT]

I'm serious about seeing if a bunch of us wanna put towards the IK Arc system...you only really need it once unless you move studio/house.

CD

There is a plug that sits in your master buss. Does a bunch of stuff including the eq. You then shut it off at export.

Nick

[Basil]

Very interesting .

Is there any type of frequency analyzer software that could help you set standards?

[CosmicDolphin]

Yeah but once the plug is installed......

[Studioplayer]

What would be interesting is if each one of you were to mix and master the same song. Something simple and straight forward. 2 guitars, bass, one vocal, drums, & keys. You could all post them at the same time when your ready and see the different approaches. 

Dave