Recording Vocals at different sessions..Newbie

[Basil]

That's alot of hours spent tracking.
I'm lucky if I get one hour where my home isn't up for grabs.   

Questions..( to all )    How long have you been involved with recording?
                              How long have you been singing ? ...where your the vocalist.
                               

[CosmicDolphin]

Well...

There is a lady I know named Christi John Bye who used to sing with a group named Nightfall. You can hear some of her vocals here:
http://www.myspace.com/rustyspringfieldmusic
Check out Tell Me and So Late. Anyway, the bass player Rusty calls Christi the "One Take Wonder", even on songs she's never sung before.

On the other hand, I've worked with a guy named Michael Andrew. He did the vocals on my Devil May Care song. The guy's been on Merv Griffin, wrote the score for and sang the score on a Hollywood-released movie... and he spends HOURS and HOURS on each song fine tuning.
http://michaelandrew.com/

So I guess it depends.

I tell ya, I was looking at Celemony.com's Melodyne Studio today. I may just have to suck it up and buy that program. It DEFINITELY shows you how good and bad you sing and helps you correct timing, pitch, you name it. But at $570 USA it ain't cheap.

Paul

I really liked his vocals...I'd say he's the best singer I've mixed for yet.

Me...well as you know I'm no singer but I do my own vocals mostly and I try to get it all done within about 40 minutes.  I find anything after that the singing seems to get worse when I listen back the next day.


Now I just do one run though , the spend a few minutes deleting the lines or words that weren't so good and I punch them in on the same track.

Once I've done that , I usually have a take where I just stand a bit further back and really go for it.  Sometimes it works and sometimes not , but I often use those parts for Bv's or doubleing lines etc.

Sometimes I end up using the scratch vocal as I can't get a better take.  I do all those sat in my chair in front of the PC and just angle the mic towards me 

CD

[Studioplayer]

This is a great thread. Learning lots. 

[TallPaul]

Well, I started recording prank and obscene phone calls when I was 5 and then...

Oh, wait, that's not what you were really asking!! 

I've been collabing for about 6 years now? But there was a big gap until about 2 to 3 years ago. Then I joined back up on the now-defunct CollaborationCentral.com and then heard about this great site. Only been really singing for the last couple of years...

Paul

Questions..( to all )    How long have you been involved with recording?
                              How long have you been singing ? ...where your the vocalist.
                               

[CosmicDolphin]

That's alot of hours spent tracking.
I'm lucky if I get one hour where my home isn't up for grabs.   

Questions..( to all )    How long have you been involved with recording?
                              How long have you been singing ? ...where your the vocalist.
                               

About 15 years....

A couple of years just doing my own things with a keyboard and a four track

5 years working for my friends band as the the PA guy - recording engineer - Roadie - Technician

The last 8 or 9 back to singing and writing my own songs.  My first year here has been my most productive sonce band days !

CD

[juice]

Hey Guys, Just trying to catch up.

I didn't see where you stated your microphone Basil so I won't comment on that.

But from your description it doesn't sound like a good mic to use.
I've had some pretty good mics and I've had some mics I thought were pretty good until I heard better ones and not nessesarily more expensive.

I've used mics that sound really good until you push them and then they fall apart and make your voice sound horrendous. If your having control issues at 2' and 4' you should consider getting a compressor linmiter. Mostly the limiter. I use an audio device for my live recording events after going through several devices that I found works really well. It's the Edirol UA-25. It has a built in limiter which isn't perfect from someone that knows how to fine tune one. But it has saved so many of the live perfromances I've conducted at my Somngpulls.

You can also opt for a small Alesis comp/limiter which can also do fine for cheap money.

Nothing can compare to good mic technique and the more sensitive the mic is. The more crucial the technique. I've heard some awsome live perfomances with the use of just an SM 58 wich is extremely durable for abuse. You may want to consider using one of those.

I sing many things highlighting an intimate breath sound so on those I'm literally 2" from the mic and sometimes I do have to step back and turn my head (and sometimes cough) 

Tube Verses Solid State?  I can't say one is better than the other. I think of them as different. I sometimes want a hard edge brighter vocal where the Solid State Works better. The tube can actually dull it.

Like Brianna said, Dry is best when you are tracking. But effects can make you have a better attitude in your singing. But it has that price to pay of keeping in tune as well as timing because effects will delay your execution depending on how you are routing it.


Apologies for the long post. But for probably the best results is to set up 3 to five tracks for vocals (In Sonar you can do it all in one track with separate takes). Just go through the whole song non stop 3 to five times.

There is nothing more frustrating than knowing when you make a mistake and stopping to try and fix it right then.

After you are done you can go through "phrase by phrase" and choose any of the 3-5 takes and mute the others. Because sometimes you may start off good but end a phrase not to your liking. So next time around you can focus just on the ending of that section.

It may seem like a long time but you'll find it to be more organized and as your voice starts to fall apart you'll be glad you didn't delete some of the previous sections.

[Basil]

Hi Juice,

What brand of mic /model have you found that can be pushed for recording without having the sound fall apart ?

Thanks
Basil

[Brina]

Hmmm,

I've only been recording for ....**thinks*** working on year number 3 I think, not that long really, at least recording where as I have control over everything, worked in and out of studios doing vocals for years, so familiar with techniques used in booths before that.

However i've been performing for over half my life....almost 21 years now, started at 14, singing and playing keyboards...ugh why do I all of a sudden feel very very old???

Brina

[srvfender]

That's alot of hours spent tracking.
I'm lucky if I get one hour where my home isn't up for grabs.   

Questions..( to all )    How long have you been involved with recording?
                              How long have you been singing ? ...where your the vocalist.
                               

Just stumbled onto this thread. Great info from some great folks. In answer to your questions, Basil, I began recording about 1 year ago after discovering this site and have been singing my songs and whatever else at home for about the same amount of time. Never played on a stage or band. Can't get more newbie than that! This site is great with supportive people and good info.

AJ

[juice]

Hi Juice,

What brand of mic /model have you found that can be pushed for recording without having the sound fall apart ?

Thanks
Basil

That is not an easy question to answer and trial an error is always going to be your best friend.
I can tell you I've never been blessed with the financial status to afford mics that cost thousands but I've tried many of the low end mics and found the mid way point can usually do a fair job.

About 25 years ago I remember Peavey came out with this mic that they claimed sounded exactly as the Shure Standard SM-58 (BTW don't underestimate the quality you can get out of an SM 58). So I was intrigued because I was outfitting my bands setup and figured I could save some dough as they were like half the cost.
Being skeptical I put both mics sided by side to see if I could hear the difference.

I was actually a little surprized at first because it did sound pretty close although I wasn't really pushing it.
So I figured these just might work. So I grab the mic from the stand and all of sudded I thought my speakers were going to jump out of their cabinets.

I said whoa! what he heck is that. The handling noise on the mic was so bad you couldn't even touch it without making loud low end noises from the rubbing of your hand around the mic. It picked up every little nuance of vibration through the mic stand which would be no good for live performance when you got drums kicking away and jumping around. A Feed back nightmare waiting to happen.

I grabbed the SM 58 and it was quiet as anything when I handled it and moved it around in my hand.
The insulation protecting the element seemed to be the biggest difference and obviously loud volumes would penetrate through the Case of the microphone adding noise and that to me was not acceptable.

As far as breaking up? It's hard to say what will do it. But chances are if have to treat your equipment with kid gloves because it needs to be dealt delicately or it throws a tantrum. 

Keep looking.

All mics don't fit all situations so if you have to buy a mic to do all get one that has extra features like DB padding.
Good brand named mics will usually have very good case consrtuction and a low noise shelf.

If you need to carry around some mics just to plot down ideas then the real cheap mics will do the job and hurt so much if they get broken or lost or runned over. 

I have been using recently the Rode NT3 for my live events and they have a very nice tightness to them. I know that seems like a weird term but I put them side by side to two of my Groove Tubes Large Diaphram mics and it was way more responsive. I sold the 2 GT's. The NT 3 is only a medium size condenser but sounds really good for both vocals and acoustic guitar.

You can hear them being used live by going to my website and seeing any of the recent videos.

[Basil]

This has been quite educational and a great way to demystify vocal recording and I thank everyone who has chimed in.
More importantly having a chance to get you know you and for sharing your experiences and knowledge.
I've been recording dry vocals as well, because of latency problems with my set up and
I understand the merits of dry vocals. I don't understand or know how to record having some effects on and still have a dry vocal track?   I was thinking effects are how you get your sound. If electric guitar players took away amp sound and FX when they record I'm sure this would change the performance as well....right?

[TallPaul]

I think the key is to NOT have effects turned on in any preamp hardware you are using that your mic chains through. For example, I can record through my Presonus Eureka. It has a compressor and a limiter built into it. I make sure when I record with the Eureka to turn these effects OFF! Then in my DAW I have the ability to route a given track to a Group (or Channel I guess others term it). I apply effects to the Group/Channel. What gets recorded on the TRACK is dry, what I HEAR from the GROUP has effects. Ok?
Paul

[Basil]

Ok...that make sence.
Now I've to figure out how this is done.

Thanks
Basil