Recording Vocals at different sessions..Newbie

[TallPaul]

Hey Basil, the great thing about it is I can sing as loud or as soft as I want and I don't have to move. I attached a clip to give an example. I am maybe 1/2" away from the microphone the whole time, with the BOTTOM of the microphone centered on my nose and the rest of the mic ABOVE my nose.

I use a Rode NTK mic for vocals with a Presonus Firepod as the preamp. I have other vocal tube-based equipment but the Firepod is passable. I use n-track software (ntrack.com) and am considering moving to Reaper. I'm a PC guy.

4 feet away? Definitely something wrong there. You are going to lose any bass in your take IMO. Are your recording viewmeters peaking when you are closer? Where is the volume setting on the input channel?

Paul

[Basil]

I'm positive now what I've been using is wrong, if I tryed to sing or even talk 1" from the mic it would be distortion city.

Paul I'm using Reaper and there are no adjustable UV meters settings for the input of the signal.
I can't get the standard Mic slider setting on the windows mixer to change the input level either.
Basically I try to keep the record levels around -6 by not using my full voice or moving away from the mic,
this is even stranger for hearing myself through the heaphones.
Sometime I get a really good take but the all peaks are flat at the top and bottom....and I have start over.
Thanks for the vocal test demo.....Now I know 100% I need to upgrade my setup.
What does tube-based equipment do for the vocals ?

[CurtisDowney66]

Yes Basil, that's the exact pre-amp I have...and wow, it's dirt cheap now, when I bought mine it was $100 U.S.
Curtis

[Todd]

I'm curious about the tube amp also.
What does it do for the vocals?

I have a small Yamaha mixer, so would I use the tube amp in a chain ahead of the mixer? And how would it enhance the vocals?

Thanks,
Todd

[TallPaul]

Basil and Todd: In one word "warmth!" A tube based preamp should add warmth to your vocals. Like you asked though, Todd, where does it fit into the chain? If you take the output of the tube-ased preamp and put it into the (EDIT) MIC INPUT of your PC- or Mac-attached preamp, then all the tube based effects would be lost... you are back in the digital realm. You MIGHT be able to take the output of the tube based preamp into the LINE level input of your PC/Mac-attached preamp and not lose the warmth. I've tried this but I can't tell if the subtle difference is because I have lousy ears, or the tube based systems I have are nominal, or the Firepod actually IS pretty warm, etc.

I have two "tube-based" preamps: A Summit Audio 2BA-221 and the Presonus Eureka. Truthfully they sit pretty idle.

I SHOULD be able to take the output of the Presonus Eureka via it's optional SPDIF output into the SPDIF of the Firepod AND not lose that tube warmth. Haven't got that to work properly yet. Now that I have re-thought about this, I have an email into Presonus.

Another thing I use is a "mic splietter." Proco MS-3.
http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Co-into-Microphone-Splitter/dp/B0006MZFIE
The cable from my mic plugs into the MS-3. From there I can take any of the three outputs where I want. So I could plug one into channel 3 of my Firepod, another into the Summit Audio card and it's output into Line input #1 of my firepod, and another into the the Eureka then from the Eureka into Line input #2 of my Firepod. That way I can test the sound differences with exactly the same recording take.

Paul

[Todd]

Thanks for the info Paul.
Man, thats alot of information for my brain to digest

I'd love to be able to add some warmth on my vocals as I record.

I'll have to give this some thought.

Thanks man,
Todd

[Basil]

Warmth...I get it.
Like a marshall tube amp for guitar.
Curtis just plugs the mic into the tube preamp and takes the preamp out into the computer.
If I'm correct ....a tube amp has a better way of handling peaks in a signal than transitor/solid state amp and also has a fuller sound.  However....they can also be noisy too.

[CosmicDolphin]

You can run it through vintage warmer afterwards if you want that sound too.

CD

[Basil]

CD

Whats that you say?


Todd nice snidely whiplash cartoon....

[CosmicDolphin]

It's a plugin that adds 'warmth'

CD

[Studioplayer]

It's a plugin that adds 'warmth'

I ain't touching that one!! 

[CosmicDolphin]

It's a plugin that adds 'warmth'

I ain't touching that one!! 

Dude..if you touch it you pay for it

[CurtisDowney66]

I don't know much about the technical aspects of it all, but I know the ART does make it sound better.  Yeh, it adds warmth, but it also adds depth, which may or may not be the same thing.  My pre-amp also has the phantom power which is needed for alot of mics, and it has a meter so you know where you are before you even hit record.  For instance, if I just plug the sm58 into my soundcard, it sounds kinda thin.  As for the noise issue, I have noticed less noise since I started using the pre-amp.  I use XLR cables from the mic to the pre-amp, then XLR out the pre-amp to a 1/4 plug with a stupid 1/8 addapter into my soundcard.  I use the line in port also, if I use the mic input it just doesn't work worth a crap, it may have something to do with the power boost built into the mic input.  Without the pre-amp, I have to use the mic input for the power boost, but the pre-amp has it's own power boost, so that solves that problem.   The ART does have plugs for 1/4 inch if you don't have any XLR cables, but I have been told the XLR is a better connection, and eliminates some noise.  There are input and output knobs on it, so I can adjust things from it rather than mess with the soundcard controls.  I have my soundcard control about 3/4 cranked, then I just control my levels with the output knob on my pre-amp.  It did take some messing with to get just the right mix of input and output to make things sound best.  Too much input does add noise I found.  Like anything, you just need to find a sweetspot and go from there.
Curtis
Oh, and I have used the vintage warmer plugin, and it just doesn't sound as good....

[CosmicDolphin]

Oh, and I have used the vintage warmer plugin, and it just doesn't sound as good....

Man...you need vintage warmer 2 

I too have a little tube pre and it does quite a decent job, I still like to add a little Vintage Warmer or Voxengo Warmifier though.

[Basil]

Curtis,

You are a gentleman and a scholar and I very much appreciate the details and explaintion given.

Thank you.
Basil