How do get so much volume on your final mixes?

[srvfender]

I'm basically new to mixing and mastering. I use Sonar home studio 6XL for recording and Izotope ozone 3 as a plug in for mastering. I'm happy with the overall quality of the mix, just want more volume like some of you are getting. When I try to bump up the volume of the mix overall with added compression its get too squashed and sounds terrible. If I turn up the volume in Sonar the meters get into the red, although the sound does not distort. Is it okay to try that or are ther any other suggestions?

Thanks,

AJ

[DoozerDan]

I'll be interested to see the replies to this, I have the same problem.   

[CosmicDolphin]

Hi AJ

If you push Sonar into the red you're introducing digital distortion which sounds nasty, so always make sure you have enough headroom on your final mixdown.

There's loads of ways to get more volume, they're basically all compressors of some sort and everyone will have a favourite.  I use waves L3 which is a multiband compressor and a brick wall limiter , but try not to squash the song too much.

If you want something cheap but very good , then once you get your head around it Harbal is excellent for final eq and it has it's own limiter so you can match the volume of another track.  You can literally get a pretty decent result with that on it's own using the automatic eq ( intuit Q) and gain button !  Though you will get better results if you take the time to learn to use it in more detail, it can also help show you where your going wrong on unbalanced mixes or highlight monitoring problems that may be room based and you're overcompensating.

CosmicD

[DoozerDan]

Didn't think Har-Bal would work on Mac  

Does anyone know any good programs like that which do work on Macs?

[srvfender]

Hey Cosmic,

Thanks. What confuses me is that the ozone 3 has all this. The problem I encounter is that evenually the mix just gets too squashed for my liking. Are you familiar with Ozone? Are you saying that its a quality issue with the compressor/limiter, and that I need a better one? Iwonder if its user error.

AJ

[groverk]

Hey AJ

I don't think the meters in Sonar are accurate. I found that the red in Sonar is not equal to what my my sound card ( m-audio 1010 LT )input is seeing. Before I export I check to see what my soudcard levels are seeing regardless to what the master bus reading. For me just missing the red on the sound card is equal to in the red on Sonar.

This is just my opinion and not fact. Nick may be able to answer this question with regards to Sonar.

Ken

[NickT]

For a long time I was the king of loud. I have pulled back a little.

Most mastering is going through three stages. EQ, Multi band Compression and finally Limiting.

In your software, you have a great limiter built in -

Boost 11 Peak Limiter -- Get more volume and punch from your final mix with this easy to use peak limiter/maximizer. Boost 11 gives you professional results with a simple to use interface

There are a few very good mastering sources that I have found.

http://www.izotope.com./products/audio/ozone/OzoneMasteringGuide.PDF

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=432991&mpage=1&key=&#432991 (This is the kit and caboodle!)

http://har-bal.com/mastering_process.php

read some of this...take two aspirin...and call me in the morning!  LOL

Good luck!

Nick

[srvfender]

Ken,
I have found the same thing in Sonar. I'm using my edirol interface and it doesn't red line at all when Sonar does. I was thinking that I would go with my sound card meter since I'm not getting distortion when I do this. Glad to hear someone else has the same experience.

Nick,
Thanks for the info. One of the resources you listed is from izotope. I am actually using their ozone 3 software. The Boost 11 in Sonar is okay but the mastering with ozone is much better. I may try to use both.
Thanks guys,

AJ

[CosmicDolphin]

Hey Cosmic,

Thanks. What confuses me is that the ozone 3 has all this. The problem I encounter is that evenually the mix just gets too squashed for my liking. Are you familiar with Ozone? Are you saying that its a quality issue with the compressor/limiter, and that I need a better one? Iwonder if its user error.

AJ

I've not used Ozone , but I hear good things about it so it can't a bad product......Maybe you need to go back and look at how you use it ?

If you like I can master your song and post up the files of a few different mastering plugins so you can compare ?  Maybe some of the other guys would do a version with their favourite tools too ?

CosmicD

[CosmicDolphin]

Didn't think Har-Bal would work on Mac  

Does anyone know any good programs like that which do work on Macs?

No....but you can run windows on Macs now right ?

[Gerk]

You can run windows on some of the newer macs .. but to me it's like putting a volkswagon engine in a porsche hehehe

Ozone is awesome and runs very well on a Mac.  It's my preferred tool of choice for most mastering situations.  It always comes down to a battle of loud vs. dynamic range.  I prefer dynamic range in most situations ... but it really depends on the material and it's ultimate destination.  If you're going to be on the radio with it it needs to be loud to compete with everything else.  If you're not going to be on the radio ... I prefer less "squish" .. but that's always a personal thing.

[srvfender]

Gerk,

I agree with less squish. I think what Ken said might be my issue. In Sonar I red line way before my sound card does. When I download other mixes they sound great but also redline in Sonar but not with my sound card meters. I also hear no distortion so I think I'll experiment and just go with the sound card volume meter and see what happens.

AJ

[DoozerDan]

Didn't think Har-Bal would work on Mac  

Does anyone know any good programs like that which do work on Macs?

No....but you can run windows on Macs now right ?

Yeah, true, for so for about $400 I could do it...  So yeah, kinda wanted a cheaper option.  Haha.

And like Gerk said, a VW engine in a Porsche...  

I'll have to check out Ozone.

So much to learn, thank goodness I still have most of my life left to try learn it  

Dan 

[CosmicDolphin]

Gerk,

I agree with less squish. I think what Ken said might be my issue. In Sonar I red line way before my sound card does. When I download other mixes they sound great but also redline in Sonar but not with my sound card meters. I also hear no distortion so I think I'll experiment and just go with the sound card volume meter and see what happens.

AJ

If you're bouncing down and exporting it into another program to master it then it shouldn't make too much difference...should it ?

I use Wavelab to do my mastering but if Sonar is a couple of db's down you'd just make it up in Wavelab using whatever compressor/limiter...or are you mastering with Sonar ?  So the question is how do the soundcard meters compare to the mastering applications meters. 

CosmicD

[srvfender]

Mark,

Ozone is a mastering plug-in used in Sonar (in my case). The only volume meters are those in Sonar and my external soundcard.  My problem was in deciding which one to trust.

AJ