MC Acoustic Drum Clinic

[groverk]

Here you go Cary,

The toms and hh are miced with Audio Technica AT837QML ( podium mic's ) I have audix d2's and 4 but I was experimenting.

The snare is a sm 58

The kick is a Audix d6

The overhead are Samson CO2's

 tom 3 will be on the next post

[groverk]

Tom 3

[digitaldrummer]

Ken,

what are your mic pres also?

[groverk]

Hey Mike,

I was hoping to hear from you on this

I'm using a Mackie CFX16 MKII, from there I'm using the 4 bus's and 4 aux sends to get to my Delta sound cards

Ken

[youtube]

Delta sound cards

Delta Card ... You got the one with 4 ins / 4 outs Ken? Got one... Great Cards.. I got them when they first came out $800.00 or something. These days they came down in price and you can find used ones for cheap.
Not sure who else makes such a good card. I tell you I had all the expensive Porto studios and none came close to these cards...

How's the drums coming for the project Ken... Where you about to get another take. I realize you are gigging.

Good mikes means everything but it's not everything. Got to have the pro gear at this level.

Tubes 


Edit: I think I meant 8 ins / 8 outs for drumming but 4 will work if you are happy  with just 4 mike ..
lets see 1=bass drums 1=snare 1-hats 1=overhead cymbals and toms (Really need about 6 miles)

[Cary]

Here you go Cary,

The toms and hh are miced with Audio Technica AT837QML ( podium mic's ) I have audix d2's and 4 but I was experimenting.

The snare is a sm 58

The kick is a Audix d6

The overhead are Samson CO2's

 tom 3 will be on the next post

I'm diggin in Ken...don't feel like I'm being critical, well, I am being critical but it's not at all aimed at trying to be a wood tick or anything.

You do hear that jingling in the OH-R trackt?  You need to track that down 'cause it's definitely noticeable.  It may be a mic stand or cymbal stand touching against one of the tom hoops.

You're doing some eq on these track huh?  The overheads have no low end.  I know most drummers want to add their touch so the tracks sound good but it's really doing more harm in this case.

The tom 1 track preamp is too high.  There is some clipping on the initial transient of the tom hit.  If you zoom way in, you'll see it.  If you're recording in 24 bit, go a little more conservative on the levels.  If you have clip lights on the board, make sure those lights never come on.

There's some major digital distortion on tom 2.  You may have clipped the input on the DAW.  Again, if you zoom in on the hit's you'll see the nasty clipping.  When you get overs in the digital realm, it doesn't clip like in analog.  You'll see the wavform going plus and minus from sample to sample.  Perhaps that's not clear from my explanation.  If not, I can put up some screen captures showing the differences.

Tom 3 is a nice level (in my opinion) but I'm scratching my head why none of these tracks have low end?  Do you have a high pass filter on your board and is it pushed in?

The snare track has some clipping - or brickwall limiting???

The room sounds very dead to me.  How big is the room?  Is it carpeted?  What do you have on the walls?  Can you reduce it if you need to?

With regard to your mixing board... if you're only using it for the preamps, make up some special connectors to tap into the boards inserts on each channel.  You'll be able to get a signal right after the channel pres and bypass the EQ and effects stage on the board.  It's definitely the way to go when using a mixer for multiple pre-amps.  The shorter the signal path, the better.

[luisma1972]

I'll study those clips tomorrow to give some feedback. This is a very interesting and helpful thread guys, two thumbs up!

[groverk]

don't feel like I'm being critical, well, I am being critical but it's not at all aimed at trying to be a wood tick or anything.

Not at all Cary,

This is exactly the feedback I'm looking for. I've just learned a ton in your last post. Ok . heres the run down

Yes I heard the jingle, I'm pretty sure it was the washers and wing nuts on my cymbal stands ( I did not have my ride and crashes on them and I never tightened them down when I took them off ).

I mentioned the seps were dry with no eq. I did forget that although in the daw everything was flat, my board did have the low cut filters engaged.

Tom 1 too high, I'm sure your right.

Tom 2 clipping, I'm sure your right again. A screen shot would be great so I can see what to look for.

Tom 3 level good, sheer luck on my part .
No low end ? Low Cut was engaged on tom mic's, damn you have a good ear .

No limiting on the snare so it must be clipping.

The room is my garage( 16' X 20' ). The kit sits on a 8 x 5 carpet. other then that It's a concrete floor. The ceiling is just insulation, no drywall. There are cabinets an shelving on the walls . It is a completely dead room.

Come off the inserts for my sends, no problem , will do.

One of my biggest problem is the ring I'm getting from the 10" tom thats cause by the kick. I've tuned it a bunch of different ways, tuned the kick down, takin the bottom head off the tom. No luck. I can't seem to get rid of it without over muffiling the tom. The ring I'm talking about seems to be around 115 hz. Do you usually use gates for this sort of thing or do you just keep on tuning ?

Thanks again Cary for your taking the time to listen and offer your advice.

Luis, I'm looking forward to your feedback.

Gerk, Thanks for the conversation this weekend  and helping me out.

Nick, Well you know

I'll throw up some more samples tomorrow with Carys adjustment.

Ken

[NickT]

Some very good info here. I want to thank you all for the great advice.

Tom 3 level good, sheer luck on my part .
No low end ? Low Cut was engaged on tom mic's, damn you have a good ear .

Yes he does!

Lets keep it going!

Nick

[Gerk]

No gates!  Gates are evil and should be a last resort IMHO ... gates very much change the sound of things too, even the very expensive ones.  I used to tour with a full rack of Drawmers that was worth more than most people's cars and I barely ever even hooked them up

Also another good thing to note, is that you can have clipping going on even if the red clip light on your board doesn't light up.  If it's even close to clipping and in doubt back it off more   If you're recording 24bit you've got some room to play with there, you don't have to (or want to) record everything super hot.

Mark

[Gerk]

With regard to your mixing board... if you're only using it for the preamps, make up some special connectors to tap into the boards inserts on each channel.  You'll be able to get a signal right after the channel pres and bypass the EQ and effects stage on the board.  It's definitely the way to go when using a mixer for multiple pre-amps.  The shorter the signal path, the better.

Yep, not to mention the elimination of additional op-amps, filters and noise of not only the channel strips but also the bus/aux sends   Most inexpensive boards tend to use cheap stuff for aux sends -- even more cheap than the components in the channel strips themselves.

Mark

[luisma1972]

After listening to your tracks, I just second everything Cary said. As said before tom 2 clipping in maybe the most noticeable "inconvenience". There is an issue with the snare too, it isn't sounding "natural", maybe you could tell us what kind of processing you did on the tracks?. The room is dead, but I still prefer a dead room over an awfully sounding one

[Thunder]

Darn i want that crane song spider pre,my eyes are exploding HA HA ,They will rock on the drum sound.Oh well ,will live with my red1 for now .........

[groverk]

Here's where I'm at with all the junk on it

Ken

[digitaldrummer]

Ken,

on the using inserts subject... you can use a standard 1/4" snake for that.  just remember that you want to keep this a fairly short jump from the mixer to the sound cards because now it's unbalanced and will add noise (how much depends on a lot of factors) so you are better off to put the mixer fairly close to the sound card/breakout box/etc.

And if you do use the inserts, just push the 1/4" plug in until it clicks once--don't push it in all the way.  this will interrupt the signal just after the preamp.  the downisde is that now you can't use the EQ on your board and will have to EQ on the DAW.  not too big a deal though as the Mackie CFX EQ is nothing you will probably miss...  I have the CFX12 and just use it for monitoring.

Mike