*** MC MC #1 ***

[Cary]

I've polished this up a bit and listened to it for a couple of days and I think I'm ready to post with some questions.

I've put several other mixes on my desktop and listened to them quit a bit and I've tried to get the vocal quality that I'm hearing from Curtis, Nick and Cary's mixes. I read Curtis post about exciters and deessers so I downloaded a demo exciter and didn't like what I got from it. (Yea, I read the manual). I wasn't about to pay $145 for the full version; I just don't process vocals that much.

What are you guys using to process the vocals?

I got a freebie Master Limited from Cary some time ago that I use a lot, I'm hoping there is an exciter out there that's either free or costs much less.

I tried to match the vocal quality through compression an EQ in n-track. I used a tip I learned from EPS and stripped the verb from the vocals and used a Quick delay to fatten them just a bit. I could live with this mix but if I could improve the lead vocal some more, I would.

 I got the drum track to my liking through some cut & paste work.

Let me know.   

Hey Preston.  I listened to this latest mix.  For sound quality, I like the first one better.

This is just my opinion, but it is one shared with MANY pro mixers.  I'd stay away from exciters like BBE and others.  You can get perfectly fine sounding mixes without the use of them.  They do have their place, but at this stage in the game...they will do far more damage than good.

Here's a tip that I got many years back.  It's a gem and makes plenty of sense when you think about it.  In a song where the vocal is the focus, do as little EQ as possible to the track.  In this case it's typical to have some low shelf to do away with pops and rumble which are not parts of the character of a vocal track anyway.  For example, try -8db at around 150 to 200hz.  If you adjust the cutoff frequency while listening to the track, you'll hear a point where the body of the vocal starts to sound too thin. The object is to keep as much of the meat of the vocal sound while cutting the low end.  Now that you have the vocal track close, work the rest of the music around that.  Many try to fit the vocal into a huge sounding music track.  I think it makes more sense to work the important instruments first, in this case, the vocal and then the music foundation (drums, bass, and guitars)

Are you mixing in N-track?  What reverb plugin are you using?  oops...i see you're using N-track and no reverb.  I'm not going to challenge anyone elses advice, but to answer your question, I used EQ and reverb only on my mix.

[NickT]

I'm not going to challenge anyone elses advice, but to answer your question, I used EQ and reverb only on my mix.

On your mix or just the vox?

Vox - I compressed to -6 db (Thanks Cary) ran a fake EMT plate reverb (Cakewalk FxVerb) and an analog delay set to tempo. I have to check on the eq. Maybe some 100 hz @ -4 with a Q of 1.4 (my usual starting point) But I may not have used eq at all on this vox.

nick

[DoozerDan]

So much technical stuff!  I just use my ear, 'cause I can't find half that stuff on my software... 

[jeff]

Yes, this is all too tech for me.

Vox - I compressed to -6 db

ran a fake EMT plate reverb (Cakewalk FxVerb)

Maybe some 100 hz  @ -4  with a Q of 1.4 

Causes my eyes to glaze over...and I can't control the yawning.

I think some of us ain't meant to be mixers.

Jeff

[CurtisDowney66]

For the record, I hardly ever use the exciter plug-in, actually, this was the first time I have used it, and I used it very sparingly.  I think the common thing that Nick, and Cary, and I have used on the vocal is some compression.  I believe I compressed it at 2:1 at -25 or so, don't really remember.  I haven't had time to listen to alot of the mixes, but I remember(I think it was Dan) saying he had to use volume envelopes on the vocal to keep things from clipping.  Well, a bit of compression will help that alot.  I wouldn't worry about messing with an exciter Preston, 'cuz like Cary says, they aren't necessary hardly at all, only for a certain thing sometimes, and what I was looking for was just a little more depth to the vocal.  I think I used so little of it that it didn't make much of a difference anyway.  The most important thing is the eq and the compression, and the eq will be a bit different in everyones mixes, because it has to blend with YOUR mix.  And each vocal will require different things.  I hardly ever mix anyones vocals except for mine, so I tried a whole different approach on Rays vocals, because the things I do with my vocal just didn't work for his.  That is why I used the exciter, I guess I was just searching for something different, because Rays vocal is different than mine.  Each mix is different, so different type of things are needed. Each vocal is different so different things are needed there also.  Just experiment with different things to see what works in your mix.
Curtis

[DoozerDan]

For the record, I hardly ever use the exciter plug-in, actually, this was the first time I have used it, and I used it very sparingly.  I think the common thing that Nick, and Cary, and I have used on the vocal is some compression.  I believe I compressed it at 2:1 at -25 or so, don't really remember.  I haven't had time to listen to alot of the mixes, but I remember(I think it was Dan) saying he had to use volume envelopes on the vocal to keep things from clipping.  Well, a bit of compression will help that alot.  I wouldn't worry about messing with an exciter Preston, 'cuz like Cary says, they aren't necessary hardly at all, only for a certain thing sometimes, and what I was looking for was just a little more depth to the vocal.  I think I used so little of it that it didn't make much of a difference anyway.  The most important thing is the eq and the compression, and the eq will be a bit different in everyones mixes, because it has to blend with YOUR mix.  And each vocal will require different things.  I hardly ever mix anyones vocals except for mine, so I tried a whole different approach on Rays vocals, because the things I do with my vocal just didn't work for his.  That is why I used the exciter, I guess I was just searching for something different, because Rays vocal is different than mine.  Each mix is different, so different type of things are needed. Each vocal is different so different things are needed there also.  Just experiment with different things to see what works in your mix.
Curtis

(yeah it was me with the volume envelopes) I think I do have comp on the Vocals, but it was still clipping a lot.  But I'll check it out.  Thanks for the tips. 

Dan.

[Brina]

Ok,

Here's my "first" run....

got some things to iron out after asking a few questions...THANKS NICK!!


but thought I'd at least show there's some progress.......its not that great..but well...(((shrug)))

Brina

Why don't you think it's great?  Perhaps you can share what you're having problems with, and also what YOU believe is right.

Listening to your mix, I only have issues with the levels of the drum components - cymbals too loud, toms not loud enough, etc.  You're certainly in the ballpark though, so that's a good thing.

As I said before, perhaps you can share the parts that you're having trouble with and some of the other may offer good advice.

Thanks Cary,

Well, for starters I'm a perfectionist so I hear things that I know could be better, but just don't have a clue how to.

Talked with Nick in chat and my biggest problem to me was getting the thumpyness out of the lead guitar tracks, that 'wacking" noise for lack of better terms.....  I spent alot of time trimming ray's vocal to take some of the semblance out before de-essing it.  The panning is throwing me off, I can hear in my head where I would like everything to sit but once I start layering things in it tends to muddle up.  Especially in when the background vocals come in.....

I'm gonna take another go at it concentrating on some drum compression and some editing of the "cymbals - yes NICK the bridge".....

just flying by the seat of my pants mostly.....but its good practice...

and I am enjoying it more than I had expected.....just a little bummed at how long its taking me to grasp some of the "theories".... now give me a live sound system and we've got a whole different story

Brina

[Cary]

I'm not going to challenge anyone elses advice, but to answer your question, I used EQ and reverb only on my mix.

On your mix or just the vox?

nick

Yes, the vocal.

What are you guys using to process the vocals?

 

[NickT]

Yes, this is all too tech for me.

Vox - I compressed to -6 db

ran a fake EMT plate reverb (Cakewalk FxVerb)

Maybe some 100 hz  @ -4  with a Q of 1.4 

Causes my eyes to glaze over...and I can't control the yawning.

I think some of us ain't meant to be mixers.

Jeff

You all sound so great that it's easy for me to forget everyone isn't a tech.

I do try to throw out useful numbers and suggestions. But Cary was right when he asked for what some of you are having difficulty with. It will all help in the end!

Nick

[Bassic_Soul]

OK, here's what I did.
Lead vocal has lots of De-essing.  I treated the track in Samplitude to do some noise reduction before bringing it into N-track. 

OK, I am paying attention.

Now I'll Google "Samplitude"

I'm working on a new/old mix.

[Bassic_Soul]

Here's a tip that I got many years back.  It's a gem and makes plenty of sense when you think about it.  In a song where the vocal is the focus, do as little EQ as possible to the track.  In this case it's typical to have some low shelf to do away with pops and rumble which are not parts of the character of a vocal track anyway.  For example, try -8db at around 150 to 200hz.  If you adjust the cutoff frequency while listening to the track, you'll hear a point where the body of the vocal starts to sound too thin. The object is to keep as much of the meat of the vocal sound while cutting the low end.  Now that you have the vocal track close, work the rest of the music around that.  Many try to fit the vocal into a huge sounding music track.  I think it makes more sense to work the important instruments first, in this case, the vocal and then the music foundation (drums, bass, and guitars)

I'm still paying attention.

Thanks Cary, this will go into the "saved" stack.

Now for the hard part, trying to apply it to my mix.

[Studioplayer]

What the hell was I thinking when I opened this package up.    Man!!! This is a tough mix. I'm half way into it so I hope this clinic goes on for awhile. There is sooo much that needs fixing. It could take a few days to get a decent mix.

Not sure if I can produce anything but I'll give it a go.

Dave

PS Are all the lead guitar tracks clipping like that? Those are the originals? If they are they're VERY hard to fix. Realistically should be replayed with no clipping. The playing is good, the clippings not. 

[DoozerDan]

What the hell was I thinking when I opened this package up.    Man!!! This is a tough mix. I'm half way into it so I hope this clinic goes on for awhile. There is sooo much that needs fixing. It could take a few days to get a decent mix.

Not sure if I can produce anything but I'll give it a go.

Dave

PS Are all the lead guitar tracks clipping like that? Those are the originals? If they are they're VERY hard to fix. Realistically should be replayed with no clipping. The playing is good, the clippings not. 

Yeah, those guitars are a bit of a pain.  I found the clipping can't be heard in the mix.  But it's still annoying. 

A few days?  Man, now I'm wondering where I went wrong, it only took me about 6 hours to get to my stage...  Well, I guess that could be counted as taking a few days......     But it's great fun to mix Dave!  So much to play with, you can do all sorts with it!

Dan.

[Studioplayer]

OK Been mixing all night and just had to listen to some of the mixes here. I've taken a totally different approach than everyone else. Hope to post something soon. Just listening to Brina's as I'm typing. LOL You like them crashes do ya !!! haha..  Funny how everyones different. Curtis is really heavy on the vocals. You'll find that I put more lead guitar in. Nick's sounds the best. Bugger !!! Like I said, hope to post something soon. 

Dave

[DoozerDan]

OK Been mixing all night and just had to listen to some of the mixes here. I've taken a totally different approach than everyone else. Hope to post something soon. Just listening to Brina's as I'm typing. LOL You like them crashes do ya !!! haha..  Funny how everyones different. Curtis is really heavy on the vocals. You'll find that I put more lead guitar in. Nick's sounds the best. Bugger !!! Like I said, hope to post something soon. 

Dave

Looking forward to hear yours!  More lead, I didn't think you could stick much more in than I did     But we'll see. 

I wonder why Nick's sounds the best... 

Dan.