Where's the Medium?

[rythymaker]

 Hello frendly strangers. 
 Please assist me.
 
 First, i have a pair of "near05" near field monitors.
 I also have a 5.1 stereo surround setup... which actually sounds good... but i have noticed that they are alittle(actually alot) "boomy", and even with the sub completely turned down... the low end is still substantial! I have been attempting to take this into consideration, and attempt to mix accordingly... but i am not one, to have to or want to "guess", when it comes to my final mix and what everyone else will here.

 I find that a mix will sound great in headphones and also great through my near field monitors. But, then comes the test through the stereo speakers. Well the mix sounds like crap! Always too much low end and not enough high end. All the levels i thought were right and sounding great, completely seem thrown out of wack when listening to the mix on my stereo setup. (i.e too much boom, not enough highs, the vocals sound great in headphones and through the near fields, but seem as if they are so far back in the mix, and can hardly be heard through the 5.1 system)
 
 What i find myself wanting to do now, is mixing in "real time" through the 5.1 setup, but this tends to be against all theory(that i have read up on anyways). Besides, when i mix this way, the mix doesn't sound good through the near fields, and also through headphones.

Where's the medium?
What should i be looking for in a mix, compared to mastering?
What overall volume should i expect with my mix, compared to mastering?
I also have a set of AKG "studio monitor" headphones(2x600 OHMS). Should i be making more use of these rather than counting so much on my stereo headphones?

 With that said... the name of a good mastering tech. would help also:)

 Please, forward any suggestions that you may have... as you can see...i need your help!
 Thank you.
 
 Merry Christmas to all!
 
 Truly, with respect,

 Jaden
 
 
 

[Cary]

If you're mixing for 5.1, then you should be mixing through the 5.1 system.  If you're mixing for stereo, then it should be through a stereo system.

Tell me a little bit about your room, where the monitors are placed, and how your reference material sounds through the near fields.

Right off the bat, I'm willing to guess that most of your problems come from the room acoustics.

[rythymaker]

Cary, thanx for your attention.

 My room (in feet) is: 10.5 wide x  6.5 high x 21 long.
 The room is divided into 2 parts (basically half and half), with one half being a make shift living room and the other half being a project studio. 
 I am set up mainly in one corner. (maybe moving more to the middle will help)
 My near fields are placed approx. 3 feet away from me with equal distance in between them. I tend to walk around the room and listen to the reference monitors. Once i feel that the mix sounds good, i then export to wav or aiff and have a listen to my mix on the 5.1 system through itunes.
 Now, i am aware itunes has its own eq. But i guess it shouldn't matter, should it? Because if everything else(c'd's, Mp3's) sound good, then my mix should as well damnit:) 
 My stereo system is Logitech, and is driven by my computer soundcard. There are presets which allow me to run in different modes. (i.e. - headphones, 2.1, 4.1, and 5.1 system)
 I don't have any room treatment as of yet, mainly because i am not sure how long i will be in this suite. I suppose if i could manage tacking some acoustic foam in strategic places in a way that it could be pulled off and moved, then that would seem like a good investment.
 Maybe there are better reference monitors that I could purchase. But these are made by ESI (they are selfpowered) and i was told by more than one engineer that they were a good quality monitor.  I also have the volume on them turned up all the way... just to insure myself that they are equally balanced. They have XLR as well as the 1/4 inch inputs. I am using the 1/4 inch. Should i rather be using the XLR?
 
 Since i put the first post up, i have decided to take an old air mattress (that didn't seem to want to hold enough air to sleep on anymore) and place it behind my workstation. The mattress has a "felt" side. I am hoping that with it not being able to hold much air(just enough to remain standing) the felt and the density will allow for a sort of bass trap and/or "deadener".    Its worth a shot:) I know acoustic treatment is essential... but finances sometimes tend not to agree.  

[dogbizkits]

Have to go with Cary's assessment:

Right off the bat, I'm willing to guess that most of your problems come from the room acoustics

In an ideal world, we would have proper listening environments - but most of the guys and girls that mix her on MCS don't have this luxury and tend to use whatever space is available to them. With that thought in mind, I hope the following commentary will give some food for thought.

Room acoustics is by far the most likely scenario for your problems and you may need to put some "compensatory" device in-place to help even out some frequency issues. Just as a first thought, you could help this situation by not having your monitors playback too loud (which will mean less room coulouration). The other thing you may want to try is to get some really well produced CD's and play them through your monitors and adjust the relevant frequency bands on your graphic EQ system until your sound is "right". OK.... this depends on experience of various listening contitions - but you may be able to produce an EQ curve that helps you get a mix that will play better on a variety of systems. Again, depending on your experience with audio, you can actually "tune" a deficient set of monitors with careful EQ and get better [more faithful] mix. It's not ideal by far - but it can be done and it can help get the job done a bit better. My essential tips would be to move your gear from the corner, not to mix too loud, and let some "air" get behind your monitors [don't put them flat against the wall] and don't use the sub for the moment.... it'll only compound your problems. Also, you don't really "need" bass traps if in a "small" room with your playback level low. I'm a follower of the great George Massenburg and have learned from his written work that mixing at low levels has significant advantages for training ones listening skills. Being too loud can actually prevent you from getting a good mix. At the end of the day, take things slowly if you don't have much audio experience. Solo the instruments and learn their sonics / dynamics and frequency ranges. Do "simpler" mixes just to get your "ears" trained - then move to something more complex when you're happy you have your instruments worked-out. It may just be a case that you're trying to do too much, too early. We've all been there.... but we do get better if we stick at it.

Rab 

[rythymaker]

Have to go with Cary's assessment:

Right off the bat, I'm willing to guess that most of your problems come from the room acoustics

In an ideal world, we would have proper listening environments - but most of the guys and girls that mix her on MCS don't have this luxury and tend to use whatever space is available to them. With that thought in mind, I hope the following commentary will give some food for thought.

Room acoustics is by far the most likely scenario for your problems and you may need to put some "compensatory" device in-place to help even out some frequency issues. Just as a first thought, you could help this situation by not having your monitors playback too loud (which will mean less room coulouration). The other thing you may want to try is to get some really well produced CD's and play them through your monitors and adjust the relevant frequency bands on your graphic EQ system until your sound is "right". OK.... this depends on experience of various listening contitions - but you may be able to produce an EQ curve that helps you get a mix that will play better on a variety of systems. Again, depending on your experience with audio, you can actually "tune" a deficient set of monitors with careful EQ and get better [more faithful] mix. It's not ideal by far - but it can be done and it can help get the job done a bit better. My essential tips would be to move your gear from the corner, not to mix too loud, and let some "air" get behind your monitors [don't put them flat against the wall] and don't use the sub for the moment.... it'll only compound your problems. Also, you don't really "need" bass traps if in a "small" room with your playback level low. I'm a follower of the great George Massenburg and have learned from his written work that mixing at low levels has significant advantages for training ones listening skills. Being too loud can actually prevent you from getting a good mix. At the end of the day, take things slowly if you don't have much audio experience. Solo the instruments and learn their sonics / dynamics and frequency ranges. Do "simpler" mixes just to get your "ears" trained - then move to something more complex when you're happy you have your instruments worked-out. It may just be a case that you're trying to do too much, too early. We've all been there.... but we do get better if we stick at it.

Rab 

 Rab,
 
 Thank you for taking the time to write some suggestions on my currents mixing issues. It's much appreciated!
 I will put everything to the test, and try and figure out what works best for me.
 Acoustic panels are on my wish list this Christmas, as they are much needed!